Avoiding?

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Hwoarang CS
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Hwoarang CS »

Maybe i don't know, i only know that we need to change system, i played with you 10 games in this season and because John beat me and beat you, he always will get points does not matter who win i or you!!! (For our wins he getting all times points)
kukumber
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by kukumber »

First of all, what makes you think you will win the rematch? And second, if you value points and victory that much, you should have played better in your first game. Take it more seriously, do your best and you won't need a rematch.
As for the system with fixed amount of points yuo want to introduce, it won't work here, cause it will come down to "farming" points from those who can hardly fight back, which is ugly. It works if you do it like in many sport games where teams just play against each other fixed amount of times (1, 2, 3, doesn't really matter). But in that case playing becomes obligatory, system requires same amount of games played from every player, which we can't allow ourselves here due to obvious reasons. Otherwise it's extremely dependent on activity or even the "most active wins" league in worst case. So yeah, that kind of things won't work.
There is a PO every season and every year, there is CWT every year if you want somewhat intense competitive playing. Ladder is a bit different, just don't take it for what it's not. :)
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Hwoarang CS
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Hwoarang CS »

kukumber wrote:First of all, what makes you think you will win the rematch? And second, if you value points and victory that much, you should have played better in your first game. Take it more seriously, do your best and you won't need a rematch.
As for the system with fixed amount of points yuo want to introduce, it won't work here, cause it will come down to "farming" points from those who can hardly fight back, which is ugly. It works if you do it like in many sport games where teams just play against each other fixed amount of times (1, 2, 3, doesn't really matter). But in that case playing becomes obligatory, system requires same amount of games played from every player, which we can't allow ourselves here due to obvious reasons. Otherwise it's extremely dependent on activity or even the "most active wins" league in worst case. So yeah, that kind of things won't work.
There is a PO every season and every year, there is CWT every year if you want somewhat intense competitive playing. Ladder is a bit different, just don't take it for what it's not. :)
Heheheheh i can not know who will win, because i can not get my RM :D :D i only wan to change the system because he is bad and you can decision how to change it on better , and now you answer to me: now if i play with you and you beat me 3:0 you go with 3 wins in PO and Crash or Tade they will turn out, is it okay for you???
Last edited by Hwoarang CS on Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Johnmir
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Johnmir »

I didn't see the topic in time.
It is actually good you gave your opinion, but, guys, you didn't take into account some facts:

You say i'm avoiding playing with you, Piki and Hwoarang, but
1. I didn't play any rematch at the moment, not with Kilobyte, Chuvash, Marjano, Zolo-du - wormers i lost to (please, pay attention to this, Ves).
2. You blame me in avoiding you (like i played against everyone except you), but i only played two ONL games in 1,5 months and i did it two days ago against Evito and Fantomas. Why? Cause they are people i have known for .. may be 5-8 years. I'm obviously inactive.

You say my place is unfair and the system is bad, but
1. I won against ONL wormers taking the following places: 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th. I lost to: 1st, 9th. If we talk about fair system i'm rather 2nd at the moment, not even 3rd (Kayz, don't take it too close, i just want to be clear and guys to understand me).
2. The only way to change the situation but keep the league fair at the same time - strict home/away system. In this case we will loose 1/2 ONL players though, cause not everyone will be able to play strict 60 matches in 3 months.

Before this season started i told you, guys, I won't play the second circle of games before 45 days of league ends. I was going to do it like that, but simply stopped playing cause of personel reasons. I will try to play vs Kayz (i actually promised him before, so i will have to), and vs Hwoarang, also Piki, if i manage to find a chance, i will contact you, guys.

Piki, cmon, friend, i never (ok, very reraly) keep snooper on, if i don't play. Of cause I played a friendly vs Kalababa when you asked me to play. After that i had to leave PC cause of a late time (our game was pretty long, that it why i said to Hwoarang "may be later"). Guys, I have to manage my time myself. Lol, do you mean i can't go to sleep before i play you?

Hwoarang, cmon. Guys, don't be like, "i lost the first match and it is so unfair not to get a rematch". It sounds like you lost by some accident, or you were not the one who lost, just someone played in stead of you :). In any tourney you won't get ANY chance to replay, every game is the last one, cmon. I didn't choose any opponent, i played 1 game vs EVERYone. It doesn't look unfair to me. I don't see a problem, that Chuvash won't give me a revange, cause, lol, i played serious, and i lost to him, he was simply better. I'm okay with waiting for playoffs or play him next season (in spite of our game vs Chuvash was not even a league game, it was previous season playoffs which automatically counts as a league game!).

Evito, Tade and Kayz, thank you for a good words, sorry that you had to explain me here.
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Hwoarang CS
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Hwoarang CS »

This is not turnament this is league bro, have you forgotten :D :D and do you remember when you wrote this not too long ago: "You don't really need to play a league game vs someone more then twice a season. The first match and rematch in 20-30 days (it is a time when both players can improve and check their level again)." :D :D i wait on that RM not 20 or 30 days i wait more then 70 days :D :D cmon you say that :D :D
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Kayz
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Kayz »

"2:0,2:0and2:1 and lost a point for the third match instead of earning few like 0.45 points and some for kilo thats false." How is that false? Are you saying a winning ratio of 6/7 is better than one of 100%? Last time I checked nothing beats 100%. Most of you people who complain about this system don't even know how complex it is. This system is the only one, who can give someone who has not so much time, but is a good player, the same chances as a pro who plays 24/7. In the past chuvash, HwoarangCS, Jellenio and some others were the most active players this leage had ever seen, but still some people who played selectively few matches against really good players managed to win and deserved a PO spot, which is right. In this league rounds count, not games, get this in your head, and you will understand this system. Ofc 2-0 2-0 2-1 is worse than 2-0 2-0. How else can it be? If you count games only, we'd need a totally different system, and then you can also directly only count the overall performance. Someone who wins vs a very good player 6-0, is much better than someone who barely wins 3-2 and 3-2. Btw John I don't blame you, I was trolling ;) Some posts here are plain ridiculous and just wrong.
HwoarangCS wrote:Maybe i don't know, i only know that we need to change system, i played with you 10 games in this season and because John beat me and beat you, he always will get points does not matter who win i or you!!! (For our wins he getting all times points)
What's your point? If you want to be on top, don't lose important matches. You know Johnmir is good, but you lost to him. So what? I lost to chuvash, too, won him afterwards but I am still second place because I lost to Johnmir. Am I complaining? No. I know I lost some matches I shouldn't lose if I wanted to win the ladder, so I try again next season. Why are you bitching and say that the system sucks? You have a playoff spot.. What else you want? You lost to Johnmir, you lost to me (5-2 in rounds), you didn't play chuvash this season, but you complain about 4th place? Seriously? Or are you implying you deserve 1st place because you played over 100 games? :D

Edit: Piki wtf is Atletico Madrid? never heard of it, but I can assure you, the difference of won/lost games of Johnmir and me is not that big :D

Btw Hwoarang if you win chuvash 2-0, you'd be on 2nd place, good luck :P
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Hwoarang CS
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Hwoarang CS »

What's your point? If you want to be on top, don't lose important matches. You know Johnmir is good, but you lost to him. So what? I lost to chuvash, too, won him afterwards but I am still second place because I lost to Johnmir. Am I complaining? No. I know I lost some matches I shouldn't lose if I wanted to win the ladder, so I try again next season. Why are you bitching and say that the system sucks? You have a playoff spot.. What else you want? You lost to Johnmir, you lost to me (5-2 in rounds), you didn't play chuvash this season, but you complain about 4th place? Seriously? Or are you implying you deserve 1st place because you played over 100 games? :D

What i you want, and what is my point? :D :D i want fair scoring system not like this unfair and that is my point, and i do not complain on 4th i'm complain on system, and i deserve answer Kayz because someone getting points for my wins because i beat someone 2:0 2:0 and 2:1 and i lost points, because i lost point if nobody played game, how can anyone be in front of someone with so much less win ... i deserve answer Kayz no 1 place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Hwoarang CS on Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kayz
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Kayz »

I already answered. Rounds count, so "2-0 2-0 2-1" is worse than "2-0 2-0" because everything less than 100% is worse... Simple math. Games you already played in this season are still counting points, if you win someone who is on 8th place, and this guy drops on 9th 1 week later, you lose points, even if u are on holiday xD. It's as simple as that.

This system is dynamic and the most fair system anyone ever created. I doubt you lost points if noone played any game at all. It doesn't matter if you didn't play any game, but the other games count, too.

Your own games alone don't count alone your standing, that's why in the beginning of every season the points are really weird like 0.0001 and 5.3333 or something, I saw people on rank 1 in the beginning of the season who only lost. But after the 3 months, it compares all players with all others and then it's fair again. I see no problem there
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Hwoarang CS
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Hwoarang CS »

Kayz wrote:I already answered. Rounds count, so "2-0 2-0 2-1" is worse than "2-0 2-0" because everything less than 100% is worse... Simple math. Games you already played in this season are still counting points, if you win someone who is on 8th place, and this guy drops on 9th 1 week later, you lose points, even if u are on holiday xD. It's as simple as that.

This system is dynamic and the most fair system anyone ever created. I doubt you lost points if noone played any game at all. It doesn't matter if you didn't play any game, but the other games count, too.

Your own games alone don't count alone your standing, that's why in the beginning of every season the points are really weird like 0.0001 and 5.3333 or something, I saw people on rank 1 in the beginning of the season who only lost. But after the 3 months, it compares all players with all others and then it's fair again. I see no problem there
And system like this is ok for you? I respect your opinion, but i think this system is stupidly!!!
Piki1802
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Piki1802 »

@moustachmir I was stupid and reckless enough to immediately think of avoiding, that's my fault, and I'm sincerly sorry for calling you that.

Also, fair enough, I wasn't even registrated back then, I hope that I can still give you tennis tips :<

@Kukumber I bet that's a message you have copy pasted here, because well, lol I guess it's not the first time this happens to you... anyway farming poinpoints is something that can only be done untill he/she reaches a certain level, then it makes absolutely no sense at all.

And you're right about that whole most active player wins, but heck why do you lose point when having a victory. And maybe a small bonus of points could be given every 15 matches, so that people get motivated to play a lot of matches.

Just giving some ideas of how to, well "improve" the league system because there is obviously some, maybe even unconsious tactics involved.

@Kayz it is a football club which ended up first in the liga bbva, and it was only an example, not a comparisent :P

@Moustachmir just a question as a human being, do you understand the frustration of well, for example Hwoarang's side towards you? Not attacking you ofc, you made yourself clear and I know you are polite and I'm just dumb shiza to you all know... but inactivity feels so deadly sometimes :<

Hmm could we all just try suggesting some stuff or defending the league system (explaining it) instead of making drama? :<
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Kayz
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Kayz »

Yes Hwoarang, this system is perfect, it just has flaws when it comes to inactivity/avoiding, but that's the people's fault, not the system's fault.

I disagree Piki1802, we had extra points once, but it destroys the system, there was a season when Koras and me had almost equal amounts of wins, and hence almost equal amounts of points, but I won some ONL Tournament, and I won 25 points or something with this. Then Koras had NO CHANCE to catch me, and since we all agree tournaments and ONL ladder are strictly separate things, we removed this idea directly again. (I still kept the medal hehe) So tell me why someone who wins chuvash, Dario, Mablak, Koras and me each 3-0, and then goes on holiday, and another player plays 200 games, winning 100 of them vs average to good players, but loses to the pros, should he be on top because he was the most active? I say: HELL NO
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Hwoarang CS
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Hwoarang CS »

System is suck that i think, and for 2 years only you and maybe 5 guys will playing onl :)
Piki1802
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Piki1802 »

Kayz wrote:Yes Hwoarang, this system is perfect, it just has flaws when it comes to inactivity/avoiding, but that's the people's fault, not the system's fault.

I disagree Piki1802, we had extra points once, but it destroys the system, there was a season when Koras and me had almost equal amounts of wins, and hence almost equal amounts of points, but I won some ONL Tournament, and I won 25 points or something with this. Then Koras had NO CHANCE to catch me, and since we all agree tournaments and ONL ladder are strictly separate things, we removed this idea directly again. (I still kept the medal hehe) So tell me why someone who wins chuvash, Dario, Mablak, Koras and me each 3-0, and then goes on holiday, and another player plays 200 games, winning 100 of them vs average to good players, but loses to the pros, should he be on top because he was the most active? I say: HELL NO
Fair enough, because you speak out of experience :)

well last thing to offer, before I throw myself in a tank full of sharks... maybe the players should play two games as minimum before the whole earning point because your opponent you had defeated wins? if it is just absurd lock the damn thread throw it away I don't care, I see that you have done quite a lot to this league system :)
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Kayz
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Kayz »

I always try to play more than one game vs the same opponent, but still, it's not the system's fault if one player chooses to avoid others. HwoarangCS, you only say the system sucks, but you haven't shown one argument I couldn't nullify :)

Anyway, even if we take the system aside, talking about activity, you have the highest, you won a lot of games, but you lost some versus very strong players. You are on fourth place, and even if you lose 1 or 2 points because some changes in the ladder are made, (even if not by you), you still keep the 4th place. Where is your problem exactly?

another example:

If you happen to lose a playoff spot as ninth guy, because of half a point, you shouldn't blame the half point, you should blame yourself for not winning the important matches who give you TONS of points.
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Piki1802
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Re: Avoiding?

Post by Piki1802 »

Kayz wrote:I always try to play more than one game vs the same opponent, but still, it's not the system's fault if one player chooses to avoid others. HwoarangCS, you only say the system sucks, but you haven't shown one argument I couldn't nullify :)
It just feels unfair, stuff that make sense afterwards blcok your mind before all this hehe :)
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